Curse

heaven · May 16, 2006, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hey, all,

Just a word that we hear you, and are currently working on solutions to this concern. I don't have specifics yet -- the design team is meeting to discuss various options and you know how super-secretive they are!

But there will be an alternative means for players to access Elite Missions.

Do remember the devs will devise, discuss, and then test this new means of access. They'll amend, if necessary, or roll out if all is found to be good to go. Basically, nothing is easy, or simple, when you want to do it right. So give us a month or two to finalize this system, and we'll share more with you as it becomes available!

Thanks for your thoughts. To those of you who expressed your concerns so constructively and with such support, an extra-special thanks!

Thank you Gaile. It is good to know that Anet still listens to its customers. This is a good news not only for a huge GW fan base but also for Anet itself. It is good for Anet to keep the majority of players happy, not only a few "elite" (whatever it means!) players. The original GW Prophecy is the best example why GW is so popular and successful because it offers players so many interesting high-content areas and keep them going for a long long time (until new chapters come out

). We are looking forward hearing more about Anet's solution to this matter

.

darrylhaines · May 16, 2006, 03:36 PM // 15:36

I don't know why they just do the following:

A person/guild can do the elite if he/she/they has earned (Whatever ammount) faction.

Nice and simple, and gives each player/guild a goal to aim at.

Sir Mad · May 16, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Yes, thank you ANET for listening us. I'm proud and glad to see things can be changed by a group of motivated people.

Hunter Sharparrow · May 16, 2006, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

If anyone has other non-farming related solutions, let's hear em.

Gaining certain and/or multiple titles.

One title I saw required a person to achive 5 previous titles. Those that have this title could be allowed access.

Because every title is different and requires you to do different things it's something that can't be just farmed. It is also something everyone can achive in time with the only thing holding them back is their own skill at the game. No more "he with the most free time to farm wins".

Quote:

But technically the reward is the *control.* This control can then be exploited however.

So you believe in the exploiting of the mechanics of the game huh. *now where did I put those GW rules, regulations and conducts...*

It's very simple and I really don't understand why some can not or won't grasp this concept.

We all paid real money for this game. Anet advertises that this game does not require time and farming and that the casual player will be able to be as competitive as someone who has alot of time (in short this is a game of skill not time). With both being said should it or should it not be that we should have access to 100% of the game since we paid for 100% of it with the only obsticle to overcome being ones own person skill at the game and not the time to farm? Currently people can be (depends on who has control) denied this 100% because of people banded together having the time to farm. The very thing that anet advertise that wasn't required is actually required. It's a good thing they are addressing this matter because there are laws against false advertising.

The only thing that should deny me access to the full content should be me and my skill (or lack there of) at the game and not some punks who have the free time to farm. The majority of the GW players have lives. They have school or work (or both) and some have families on top of that. They play as a past time but at the same time spent (invested) the money on or into the game on the basis that it doesn't require alot of time or farming to be competitive. They also spent the money and should be able to access the full content they paid for. Last but not least they bought this game for the no monthly payments. The factions game that is suppose to be stand alone (the first chapter is not required to be competitive) but is really an expansion (debatable but can be considered false advertising again). With an expansion every couple of months there is your monthy payment. Six month installments. Though I suppose it's optional and those that play it for the past time don't have to buy the expansions if they don't want to. That is where I stand now. Won't be buying ch3 unless it gets godly reviews.

Stabber · May 16, 2006, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sciros Darkblade

It's really impossible to argue that allowing a select number of players to control access to certain content through whatever game mechanic is wrong in principle.

Why? Again I find your statements baffling. I am arguing against this sort of reward on principle. The argument is that giving a tiny group of players actual control over everyone else sets up an explicit caste system, adds no redeeming content, and has, as its primarily result, frustration and fomenting of hate. The last we have seen in spades. This is not surprising in any way. I seriously question the wisdom of the designers who thought this would be a great idea, and the quality of the feedback they received in testing.

Jeebus 07 · May 16, 2006, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Well I saw that Cavalon has a new ruler, good luck to you guys and hopefully Anet will fix it so I might be able to try out these missions since the Guild I'm in decided to go Kurzick.

I think the idea of your alliance earning X amount of faction is a good idea since 10% is taken each day so you would still need to go and get faction constantly.

Well good luck with Cavalon again, and it's nice to see that lots of people are being let in, I went over to check it out once I saw the Black Blades had lost control and there where people giving out free entry left and right, now if only a Kurzick Alliance would do the same it would be nice since we are only now just starting to organise an alliance with another small guild.

PS. I was wondering, and I'm sure this will have been answered somewhere but I don't feel like searching for it, can Kurzick enter the Elite Luxon missions by tagging along and vice versa? Well thanks and I hope this all get worked out to everyone's likeing.

Sciros Darkblade · May 16, 2006, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stabber

Why? Again I find your statements baffling. I am arguing against this sort of reward on principle. The argument is that giving a tiny group of players actual control over everyone else sets up an explicit caste system, adds no redeeming content, and has, as its primarily result, frustration and fomenting of hate. The last we have seen in spades. This is not surprising in any way. I seriously question the wisdom of the designers who thought this would be a great idea, and the quality of the feedback they received in testing.

I'm not at liberty to say what and how things were tested, but setting up a "caste system" is how most things work IRL and frankly I don't see a problem with PCs being granted a "superior" role rather than NPCs in a MMO game such as this. The "fomenting of hate" you speak of is a fault of the haters and not anyone else. As far as redeeming content goes, it creates tension, some immersiveness, and cooperation/competition. That's what things like this always cause. Some folks go with the flow, and some don't want to. But if what you say is right *in principle,* then we shouldn't have guild leaders or guild officers, as only they can initiate rated GVG, etc. The debate has been over *how* these things are carried out, as I see it.

WasAGuest · May 16, 2006, 04:25 PM // 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter Sharparrow

Gaining certain and/or multiple titles.

One title I saw required a person to achive 5 previous titles. Those that have this title could be allowed access.

The titles are not bad ideas for earning access, but it's still time over skill for most of those skills.

The cartographer title: Load up running skills and fly
Wisdom Title: Port Sledge, here I come.
Survivor Title: Umm, Mr/Ms level 20 can I follow you around for awhile?

Just a few examples there, but they are all "rewards" for just playing with the game rather than playing the game. Fun to have, but shouldn't be counted towards anything... still want my W/Me to get the drunkard title. hehe

The only solution I can see is that doing a quest and unlocking the mission. You will "earn" you access by completing the quest.

The standing problem (to me anyway) with Factions is the way the system is built from the ground up. It's all about points. Massive amounts of points. Anet assumed most players would go for the competitive style of play to gain those points. As many in these very forums said, even before release, people would not do that. They will (and have) found other ways to get what they want, that being points.
Look at the Luxon faction farm. Supply runs. Don't see many people getting together to do the duel, scouting, ect... just the Supply runs. Jade and Aspenwood are nearly ghost towns.
Kurzick faction farming, similar situation only it's the duel farming. The other quests and missions are pretty void.
The exception (though only mildly) are the challenge missions.
If Anet gets away from the farming and gives us an alternative way to enter these missions without simply falling back on the farming for yet more points/cash; we will have a winner.

BTW, points are extremely easy to gain. One can gain 10k Luxon in around an hour and a half. Kurzick points, 10k in about two hours. No exploits used, just playing with the skills and classes Anet has given us. If farming for points is what it takes to get into the Elite Missions; fine. Easy enough to do. I am just hoping for something slightly different, more fun, and challenging.

Mimi Miyagi · May 16, 2006, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Every single person argung "We paid for 100% of the content of the game, we should have access to it" is based on the false assumption that you don't have access.

First, ANYONE can gain access, if you simply don't mind joining one of the controlling alliances. There is nothing stopping you from doing so. The fact that you can get into the Deep and camp there is also a side effect, but possible, depending on who controls Cavalon.

There is zero difference between Deep/Warrens and FoW/UW. Unless your side had favor, you could never gain access to those areas. If your particular region had real issues gaining favor, you could simply switch to the controlling region and enter at will. The fact that you had to pay 1K to enter - isn't that holding some people back as much as paying some Black Blade member 10K to get a ride, but on a smaller scale?

Finally, a publisher will sell you the game, that doesn't mean they have to make it so easy for you to be able to FINISH it. Does a particularly hard game that has an incredibly hard end of game mission, one you can't seem to finish mean that the publisher has the responsibility to the consumer to make it easier? If you can't finish it and gain access to the "100% of the content" do you deserve to sue the company? Hardly.

I've railed against ANet for their decision to lock out content to only "elite" groups ever since they announced it over six months ago. I only objected because, as human nature, greed will overrule fair play, and the tactics used by groups like the Black Blades was inevitable. To top it off, their idea of "Only the most elite players will gain access" only means the rich get richer - and then their particular implementation was horrible, forcing people to grind grind grind faction - and that somehow that was "elite"?

But tossing around words like "Lawsuit" is just incredibly dumb. That's simply just jingoistic bluster without merit.

Swinging Fists · May 16, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeebus 07

can Kurzick enter the Elite Luxon missions by tagging along and vice versa?

Yes. Once in Cavalon / House Zu Heltzer, anyone can form a team and be brought into the elite mission area by someone from the controlling alliance. The only restrictions that might apply are those applied by the controlling alliance, and AFAIK, TC has no such restriction for the Deep.

Sir Skullcrasher · May 16, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

can anyone enlighten me on what exactly is in the elite mission? I know for a fact that the chest give you crazy rare drops but is that all it has? Is there any challenges or tougher bosses within those missions and is it longer than regular one?

Fossa · May 16, 2006, 05:01 PM // 17:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swinging Fists

Yes. Once in Cavalon / House Zu Heltzer, anyone can form a team and be brought into the elite mission area by someone from the controlling alliance. The only restrictions that might apply are those applied by the controlling alliance, and AFAIK, TC has no such restriction for the Deep.

TC has free busrides to the Deep for all. Go to the International District of Cavalon and join the party

Mimi Miyagi · May 16, 2006, 05:58 PM // 17:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

can anyone enlighten me on what exactly is in the elite mission? I know for a fact that the chest give you crazy rare drops but is that all it has? Is there any challenges or tougher bosses within those missions and is it longer than regular one?

They not as big as either FoW or UW - or even SF. Perhaps about the same size as the new Tombs trip. They only feature one boss at the end, the attraction is the chest and monster drops. The challenge(s) in the missions depends on which one you're following. The Deep features some interesting design elements such as teleports that only allow 3 people at a time (which forces the group to split up), areas with auto firing turrets, places with "auras" that cause exaustion (for example), constantly respawning monsters, etc). The Warrens mission on the Kurzick side is more "more is better" approach, with TONs of pop ups, and HUGE mobs. Some areas have massive degen, etc. They both should be played fairly carefully with a halfway decent team using voice comms.

The items dropped simply are nicely skinned items - their stats are no different than items you can find somewhere else. People are all worked up over vanity (yet again).

JoDiamonds · May 16, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Briefly, my previously posted idea for different access would be to let everyone have access some of the time, with more frequent access the higher the alliance's standing.

Not being in an alliance (or an alliance with no faction) would let you play once a week. Being in powerful alliance would let you access the game six days of the week. The very best alliances would have constant access (as they do now).

It's certainly not foolproof, and there's a few fiddly details, but it would be a very simple way to give access to everyone while still rewarding those who do well.

heaven · May 16, 2006, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoDiamonds

Briefly, my previously posted idea for different access would be to let everyone have access some of the time, with more frequent access the higher the alliance's standing.

Not being in an alliance (or an alliance with no faction) would let you play once a week. Being in powerful alliance would let you access the game six days of the week. The very best alliances would have constant access (as they do now).

It's certainly not foolproof, and there's a few fiddly details, but it would be a very simple way to give access to everyone while still rewarding those who do well.

Not a good idea. You are favor huge farming alliance again. Everyone should have equal treatment in GW. It is a game for everyone to enjoy, not to feel inferior. It should open for all players with some kind of fee (either gold or factions). The holding alliance memebers get in for free. That is fair for all.

Huntmaster · May 16, 2006, 07:13 PM // 19:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mimi Miyagi

constantly respawning monsters

There is nowhere in The Deep where this happens, for the record.

(Well, i guess letting Kanaxai heal and kd'ing him to spawn the mobs over and over counts..)

EternalTempest · May 16, 2006, 07:24 PM // 19:24

I have an idea on how there going to implement it.

Create some sort of challanege to get access to the area (not give it away for free).

Give more rewards / functions in town for the controlling alliance to offset the "exclusive" access being removed.

This makes sense, I see zero Lux vs Kuz battle control in chapter 3. So when population dies down / allaince is no biggy in C3, C4, or C5 there still is a way when most of your guild is off doing C5 new "battle" thing exclusive to that chapter.

Callista Aurelia · May 16, 2006, 07:34 PM // 19:34

As of right now, TC is in control of Cavalon, along with the other 8 awesome guilds in its alliance: Keys, CKIE, LFG, SS, PWN, TnC, TSB, and DarK. Most of us would be happy to party with any skilled player wishing to do the elite mission. I am still glad that ArenaNet is working on a solution to the ability to exploit control of Cavalon, but for the time being this is the next best thing. Thanks for all the support I've been seeing in this thread. :-)

Sir Skullcrasher · May 16, 2006, 07:38 PM // 19:38

The best way A-Net can implement this is probably do something similar to UW/FOW entrance where you gather your group and pay the fee to get in there. Or the next best thing is to put these entrance guard outside the town where they are located in different areas and are highly guarded by enemies (or even bosses) And you have to fight your way to reach them and pay the fee to get into the elite missions.

EternalTempest · May 16, 2006, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skulkcrasher

The best way A-Net can implement this is probably do something similar to UW/FOW entrance where you gather your group and pay the fee to get in there. Or the next best thing is to put these entrance guard outside the town where they are located in different areas and are highly guarded by enemies (or even bosses) And you have to fight your way to reach them and pay the fee to get into the elite missions.

Or one step furter, if Lex controls area, any Lex aligned character can access with paying fee, where alliance that controls get's it free. Like server's at war .. but being on faction controled vs the server region control.